S1 E2: Exploration

The ShortMerc (00:22)
Perfect Spencer that was for you ⁓ Yeah, yeah good job so exploration I think that’s a good spot to to jump into ⁓ While Ashley’s over there exploring new colors Yep, so exploration that’s kind of like how we got to this podcast in the first place I think is just chit chatting about things that

Chris (00:23)
Baaaa Baaa Baaa Baaa

Ashley (00:30)
Well done.

Mm-hmm.

The ShortMerc (00:50)
didn’t quite happen yet. Like as we talked about in existence, it’s those things that we really wanted to see what would come of them. And we just kind of shit the bed and went back into our normal nine to five lives or 11 to sevens or whatever shifts you work out to help all of you. Everybody always, always called out.

Chris (01:05)
Are we being called out right now?

Ashley (01:08)
Maybe a little.

The ShortMerc (01:12)
I mean, I had to quit my job and like go into a deep, crazy-ass depression for two years to come out on this side, so… Yeah, you’re welcome! You know, I figured if the demographic statistic information is against me already, I might as well just fucking use it and build my own thing and invite cool people to be on it. know, mellow-minded, not closed-off, weird-thing people.

Chris (01:18)
Thanks for biting that bullet for us.

Ashley (01:21)
I’m sorry.

Chris (01:29)
All right.

Ashley (01:38)
Weird thing, people?

The ShortMerc (01:39)
weird thing people so I think it’s yeah totally so I ⁓ and I will use a lot of things to keep my neurodivergent ass on track and if you find me tuttling around you can either join me in the tunnel or we can jump off a cliff and get back to what we were doing I know

Chris (01:40)
Those are my least favorite.

I’ll tut all day.

The ShortMerc (01:56)
Hey,

hey, you know what I’m gonna tell you. You’re wearing the sweatshirt. About reality in places and worlds. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And they’re not a sponsor, so I’m not sure if I can actually mention them by name. So I will let you know. ⁓ But yeah, no, you’re totally being called out. I mean, I know you guys have that nine to five run around, like it’s your groove. In fact, it’s your well-worn groove that all of you.

Ashley (02:00)
All right. Yeah, that’s Fine. Fine.

point. I’ll be careful.

The ShortMerc (02:23)
seem to know you’re welcome marketing for 20 years that’s what you get ⁓ but no it’s that thing that keeps us from actually doing the exploration like we go this thing should exist does it exist and then we just kind of let it fall off a cliff and go well i have responsibilities and job things and stupid stuff that i need to get to and then we let you know that get in the way and we don’t really explore so i mean i think it’s

It’s kind of an interesting starting off point, this whole thing, and it’s just gonna be fucking wild. I think that’s another thing we have to deal with when it comes to exploration, is the fact that you’re not gonna know. It’s gonna be a mess. And just trust that you’ve got enough skill to make it something that works.

Chris (03:07)
That’s funny that you said that because like my room is literally a mess because I’m exploring different things and partially I’m like, is this exploration like just kind of a distraction from the exploration I want to do or is it, you know, like I think intentionally right now it’s a distraction, but it doesn’t have to be. So that’s interesting.

The ShortMerc (03:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think it. Yeah, exactly. Like it’s it kind of takes everybody a bit of time to figure out what kind of exploration you want to go into, because I feel like folks think there’s just one direction and ⁓ being a little on the artsy and incredibly neurodivergent side. Now, it’s like.

Ashley (03:32)
is what you make it.

Chris (03:42)
you

The ShortMerc (03:51)
One of those glitter bombs just explodes except instead of glitter It’s a bunch of power tools and other weird things that you get to decide Am I gonna build something or like paint a thing? But also you have to watch out for the explosion because some people get stuck in the exploration stage. I think they ⁓ they just kind of Don’t Like they’ve got no compass no plan. No nothing. They’re just like go for it and it becomes this crazy grind culture

Chris (04:00)
Hmm.

Big time.

I- well… Yeah…

I think,

yeah, I think like there’s this weird sort of expectation when you’re learning to do something that it needs to lead to mastery. think culturally we’re very focused on mastery and we don’t give a lot of credence to like, you do the thing for a week and then if you’re just doing the thing because you think you should be doing the thing, move on to the next one, which is super hard for me to do.

The ShortMerc (04:39)
Yeah, like I feel like you have to kind of jump in and go, I could become a master. Like the mastery has to become the sidestep. Like you don’t go into exploration going, okay, I’m going to become, cause then that just becomes like a quest or a mission. And I mean, maybe you would end up exploring on that one, but I feel like, and you guys please jump in if you have other feelings, but I feel like it’s, it’s kind of like, fuck you too, lady.

Ashley (05:04)
No.

You

The ShortMerc (05:08)
as

the resident therapist. ⁓ Apparently I’m wrong, Chris. Let me start over. No, but it is therapy. We’re in silence for the next 20 minutes. ⁓ But no, I feel like a lot of people who go on that mission to become the master, like from the beginning, they don’t really take into consideration that that’s not quite exploration.

Chris (05:10)
I’ll continue.

Ashley (05:19)
No, I just won’t jump in. No, I’m kidding. Go.

Chris (05:20)
Mmm.

Ashley (05:24)
Amen.

The ShortMerc (05:38)
For me, if you set out to explore something, you might have an end goal in mind. There might be something that you’re like, I wanna see if I can find this thing, but it’s not like you’re going out to master all of the abilities that you need to go find the thing. You’re just literally going out there and going, okay, I wanna find the thing and that’s cool, but that’s kind of like secondary to like, I really just want an excuse to go run around in the woods and pick up really cool rocks. I feel like it’s like that.

Am I wrong? Am I off? Am I talking about a different concept?

Chris (06:11)
No, think that’s pretty… Go ahead, Ashley.

Ashley (06:11)
No.

No, I was going to say I agree. might be taking it, I mean, it’s still part of the topic, but off topic a little. Like for me, actually, my work is exploration. that social work, I mean, I’ve done, I think a little bit of everything. And when it comes to social work, and so every time I take on a new client or a new task or a new job, I’m exploring and I’m constantly exploring my clients. So I feel like I’m really good.

really actually really good at it in my nine to five and then five to seven and then seven to 10 anyway, but I think that ⁓ I think it’s applying it to my like outside of work that becomes a challenge for me, but I’m really good at it in work because that’s the whole job is exploring the different theories and modalities and then exploring a human like being curious about their experiences in their life and what’s wrong in here and then exploring the different kind of like

The ShortMerc (06:49)
I’m

Ashley (07:07)
Treatment some of them use so I’m constantly on that, like, exploration map.

The ShortMerc (07:13)
Yeah. Yeah, think… Go ahead, Chris.

Chris (07:15)
I was going say that’s interesting that you brought your job into it as an exploration because that makes me think like…

What makes me wonder how you guys explore like do you actually say I’m curious about the thing and this is my goal or I’m curious about the thing and then just start the Process down it because I recognized myself doing that today. Like I want to grow clover in my yard and It’s like this giant wormhole of like understanding all the different types of clover and all the different ⁓

grasses and like how much you need and it could be an endless series of indecisions, but really I just want to like order something and spread the clover seed.

Ashley (08:06)
I mean, I think for me in my work, I

I always say it’s more about, it’s less about the goal and more about the intention. so I do like with clients, I’ll say, I’m curious, you know, about this or with even supervisees, I’ll be like, I’m curious what this is bringing up for you. And I don’t have like a, I have a, I have a, part of the curiosity is I think that it might go in this direction, but also I could be wrong. Like with motivational interviewing, part of the reflection, ⁓

you know, the reflection tool is specifically to see if the person or summary tool is to see if I’m wrong. Like if I’ve completely I could be completely off, but like I’m going to summarize or reflect what I think you’re saying to me. And then you’re going to either likely more than likely say, no, fuck you. That’s that that makes no sense. Why you didn’t even hear me. Or you’re going to say, yeah, you’re totally on the right track. That’s what I meant. So I don’t go in with a goal. I go in with an intention of of under of like of learning, I guess, an intention of learning.

Chris (09:02)
Yeah, okay.

The ShortMerc (09:03)
Yeah, that’s kind of… that’s

Chris (09:04)
Interesting, yeah.

The ShortMerc (09:05)
really fascinating though, because it’s almost like… and get ready for me to start browbeating this one, but it’s almost like you have to put your ego on hold and kind of accept that you’re going to… God, my therapist would love that I said the word accept right now. Accept that… Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re all… it’s like weird hive mind, but not at all. ⁓

Chris (09:14)
you

Ashley (09:19)
I had my brain got really excited anyway. I’m not your therapist.

Mm-hmm.

Chris (09:27)
Wait, acceptance

isn’t an episode though.

Ashley (09:30)
Shit.

The ShortMerc (09:30)
It might be. It might be next season.

But yeah, you got to you have to like kind of put your ego on hold and kind of accept that you’re not you’re not going to know everything. You’re going to get a little scuffed in that department. Like you’re to take a bit of a hit if your theory is wrong. You’re going to have to learn how to regulate your inflation if your theory is correct. And you can’t make it about you. You have to explore ways that you can dampen that part of yourself.

Ashley (09:33)
Sure.

The ShortMerc (09:59)
as while taking in, you know, the good parts, it’s like straining off the extra algae, but you know, keeping the good stuff that you want to farm and harvest later. Am I wrong? Am I going into weird metaphor territory?

Chris (10:11)
⁓

No, that makes sense. It’s like just taking your experience to the next thing or taking the things that mattered to you about the experience and keep going on.

The ShortMerc (10:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, because like, mean, actually, you do this in your nine to five, five to 11 to seven first thing in the morning, four a.m., two o’clock in the morning. If you get a phone call like you’re always on call. But you do this during your your W-2 job and your job jobs and all that stuff. And it’s it’s kind of interesting because as soon as I feel like when the clock goes out, because Chris, you and I worked together for a while and with the

Ashley (10:29)
I work.

The ShortMerc (10:48)
the we’re on the clock we’re like well I mean we have to be here so we might as well go find new ways to do the thing you know that’s just us and you you find it fascinating because you’re actually breaking down human psyches and things like that we were just kind of creating stuff like websites and not that not the cool kind

Chris (10:55)
Hmm.

The ShortMerc (11:06)
⁓ But then when you clock out, it’s just like you start to focus on things like I’m tired or I’m running low on fuel or like I have all these other things that I have to do I can’t possibly go home and explore now and it’s like you can ⁓ But you kind of get out of your own way because you know You’re gonna have to do the dishes at some point unless you have somebody who does them for you Which kudos to you if you do but most of us do not the dishwasher still has to be loaded

Ashley (11:19)
Okay.

Chris (11:23)
Okay.

The ShortMerc (11:31)
But maybe you find a new way to load the dishwasher, you know Maybe you take the two things that have been kind of sitting with you throughout the day They don’t have to be bad things They can just be normal things like I’ve got a hand cramp, but I still got to load the dishwasher so maybe I find a new and inventive way to load the dishwasher and completely No, that is Absolutely not. I will let the chef have you for that one later, but Absolutely not. ⁓ god

Chris (11:47)
with your feet.

You

Okay, that’s not okay. You’re not going in that direction. Okay. All right. Just just just dipping my

Ashley (11:57)
you

Chris (12:00)
toes.

The ShortMerc (12:00)
UGH! No. ⁓ So, ⁓ luncheons will be at my place. We’re gonna just take care of that. like, maybe you find a new way to load the dishwasher, even wash the dishes, and accept in that fashion that you might actually fuck up your dishes, though. Like, I don’t think people are really willing to. But then in the next ref, folks will just say, I don’t, but I could, I gotta get rid of more of my stuff, and I feel like…

Ashley (12:02)
⁓ God.

Yeah, no kidding.

The ShortMerc (12:28)
I can’t get rid of it, but I have to be careful with it. like, okay, so there’s gotta be another ⁓ release, I think, like another set of something that you have to let go of. And it’s like, you gotta say, all right, so am I gonna hold onto all of this baggage and shit? Like I’ve had this glass for the last 10 years. I’ve been thinking of getting rid of it. It’s scuffed up. I don’t know what it used to be on. It’s not even a cool shape. It is just glass. And you wanna load the dishwasher in a new way.

but your brain is telling you, you you must preserve glass. Glass has been around for 10 years. You can’t get rid of glass. Most hold onto glass. Cannot explore. Glass is sacred. And it’s like, no, this is a piece of junk. But then you find yourself going back into the same motions, not exploring it anymore. It’s almost like you have to fight dumb, dumb brain that’s telling you glass is important. And then accept that if I break glass, yes, I will have to clean up. Yes, there is the minor risk of cutting myself, but also glass will be gone.

Ashley (13:11)
Mm-hmm.

Chris (13:12)
Mmm.

The ShortMerc (13:20)
You know, and if this does work and I like what I’m doing, then I know I get to do this more often with the dishwasher. And if it doesn’t work, well then maybe I’m inspired to go explore other ways of loading a dishwasher. I promise, dishwashers did not sponsor any part of this. It’s just a chore that everyone must do all the time.

Chris (13:34)
You

I’m actually super into the efficiency of dishwasher loading. And I actually kind of get mad when other people do it because I’m like, that’s not the most efficient way.

The ShortMerc (13:43)
You

Ashley (13:44)
Okay.

The ShortMerc (13:49)
Me too, me too, we get into fights about that one. ⁓ Yeah, can’t see, you have to, listen, the dishwasher has certain load bearing angles and you have to put them in certain ways. I don’t care if you eventually move things around, but it’s gotta look like a Tetris board when you’re done. Like a winning Tetris.

Ashley (13:53)
Yeah, I don’t give a fuck.

No.

Chris (14:06)
And if you put a mixing bowl in there, you’re just like

taking up a spot of two or three other bowls.

The ShortMerc (14:12)
Well,

here’s you can do the nesting egg thing with that one. You can put the mixing bowl on top of like a smaller bowl and a cup and angle it in such a way. I know, but I’ve done this multiple times. This is a whole segment, the efficiency of chores. This is the B-sides. ⁓ But yeah, no, like anyway, I learned that exploring a different way because I one day I was like, I don’t feel like washing this damn mixing bowl and

Ashley (14:20)
Episode 14, Dishwasher Loading.

Chris (14:21)
Okay.

That’s the vlog.

Ashley (14:28)
Perfect.

you

Chris (14:39)
Yeah.

The ShortMerc (14:40)
One of my others was like, yeah, but I want to make things and I was like, okay. Well, we got to wash the mixing bowl and I Figured well Let me think about the physics of nesting eggs and how they work and then what is it about a nesting egg that would cause a pocket to form in the suction and blah blah blah science speak and I Know this is where my brain goes when I’m doing one simple thing, but I’m only standing there for like five seconds Yeah It’s weird

Chris (14:50)
you

I just found a

more efficient way to load the dishwasher. Sweet.

Hmm.

Ashley (15:12)
Episode 14, I’m telling you.

The ShortMerc (15:13)
I’m clearly an adult now, that’s where that-

Ashley (15:15)
You sat together,

The ShortMerc (15:18)
But I… Damn it! Good luck, Spence.

We love you. ⁓

Chris (15:24)
Episode

15, the power of hand washing.

The ShortMerc (15:26)
Yes, unless you grew up in a Jamaican house, then it’s, that’ll be episode 16, excessive dishwashing. How to create OCD in children. ⁓ But yeah, it’s exploration, I feel like doesn’t have to be this huge elaborate thing. It can be this small.

Ashley (15:26)
Hahaha

Chris (15:31)
Okay.

Accessible.

Ashley (15:36)
Yes.

Yeah.

Chris (15:41)
you

The ShortMerc (15:50)
walk in the park of just, feel like doing something a little bit different. Like even when you get stuck in something, you can just, I want to do something a little bit different. mean like doing your nails or like planting cloves or quitting your job and exploring the world.

Ashley (16:07)
I thought you said planting cloves. And I was like, don’t think that’s… That’s true.

Chris (16:10)
You did it?

The ShortMerc (16:11)
Well, see, they did that back in the day, but it was called Cotton and they just planted a

bunch of that and then they unhired a bunch of people and forced them into picking it and did some other stuff. But, you know, that’s like episode 215. So we won’t get into that right now. Currently, America is reliving this, so we’re not. It’s just not America the musical, so let’s. But.

Ashley (16:22)
That’s true.

Yeah, I call, call. ⁓ No. But no, I…

Chris (16:34)
America

the musical

Ashley (16:36)
I agree with you. think and you’re actually funny enough describing like, mean, kind of like habit stacking, like the, you know, when you’re or hinging, I think it’s also called like, when you’re doing one, something you already do consistently, like loading the dishwasher, if you do that consistently, I don’t, but you know, if you do, ⁓ and then you want to explore. So you add something else into the thing that you’re already doing. ⁓ And that

The ShortMerc (16:36)
Yes.

Chris (17:00)
I don’t know.

Ashley (17:02)
Is it or if you’re trying to build a new habit, like, that’s the way to do it. But exploration could become like the habit is just like, I’m going to try. To do something different with the thing that I already do regularly.

The ShortMerc (17:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Chris (17:13)
I think I could use that for like cooking

recently because I’ve definitely been in a cooking slump.

The ShortMerc (17:19)
Yeah, make it a game, man. You like games. gamify. And the one thing, so I’m sorry, this is gonna come off really conceited. I promise I’m not being conceited. But I have to learn how to have arguments with myself, Mimi, me, Jess versus Jess. But have arguments with myself about how to do different things, you know, a little bit different, different, different, different, different, different. But how to do things in a…

a fluid manner while also learning the nuances of a new strategy and technique. You know, that’s something that I have to talk to myself about. have to get into conversations and argue back and forth about how I can do things differently and what it would lead to and like what path it would go down. But I mean, it’s the same thing for you in cooking. If you enjoy games and gamifying, playing things…

Explore different ways, you know, I’m there’s probably been a point where you’re like how cool would it be if I could like stir the pasta with a wizard wizard wand or some Crazy shit like use a chopstick I mean you could use a chopstick and see if you can actually get it because you guys do know how much I love Dwarven drinking night Yeah, get a cauldron there you go, you’re welcome just a little exploration, but I mean that’s the thing, you know, it doesn’t have to be some crazy

Chris (18:25)
need a cauldron now. I’m gonna start making stew.

Ashley (18:25)
I don’t know. You gotta practice.

laughs

The ShortMerc (18:37)
out and left field type of thing you know it can be just something you do and then who knows maybe later on you do decide to go into some left field spot like when i remember when i first heard about quantum mechanics and now it’s the only thing i can think about all the time it makes me so happy it’s essentially the one part of science that goes yes you know the thing but do you actually know the thing and then the thing goes bitch no so maybe next time and i think i think that’s a really

Chris (18:57)
Haha! Nice try!

The ShortMerc (19:04)
think it’s a really important facet of just existing. Back to episode one. It’s just, I know, existence is, it’s just, I mean, part of perpetuating existence, I think, is learning how to explore and learning how to create. mean, artists do it all the time. Musicians do it all the time. Authors, we do it all the time. People like to tell us we have to kill our little darlings. I did not come up with that. That is somebody else who said that first. ⁓ But.

Chris (19:30)
Yeah, my favorite bands

funny enough is their name is Darling Side based off of that term.

The ShortMerc (19:34)
See? Yeah,

so, but at the same time, it’s like, yeah, I killed my characters all at time. There’s a character that has come back in my mind, but has not come back to in the series yet. And I’m like, yeah, you’re just kind of technically dead for dead dead. But then it’ll come back, but it will actually make sense, I hope. ⁓ But that’s one of those things where it’s just like, yeah, I have to get in there and start writing and creating these characters. And then all of a sudden, you know, I’m just like, no.

Ashley (19:46)
Yep.

Chris (19:49)
I’ll just mention it later.

The ShortMerc (20:03)
Apparently it’s not going in that direction every single book I’ve written all seven of them have done that to me I don’t think there’s a way out of that honestly, but But it I mean that it comes from exploration like we’re always creating and and Obliterating and and moving forward and learning from it whether we want to or not and that’s the entire season. You’re welcome folks. Good night but You know

So, and it also wraps really nicely into healing, but we’ll talk about that later, because I’m not trying to kill anybody here.

Ashley (20:34)
Yeah, I think to your point, I’m like, I can do it all day for my work. But when I get home and I want to explore, I’m like, no, there needs to be a goal. There needs to be an end result. I need to be good at it. Like all the things that we said, like, but, you know, in work, I’m like, no, we just like, you know, we’re just going to dive in and I’m so like, I’m pretty good at it. But then, yeah, as soon as it’s about me, there needs to be like,

The ShortMerc (20:34)
I know.

Chris (20:54)
purpose of the exploration.

Ashley (20:59)
an end result that I’m going for and I need to be perfect at it immediately.

The ShortMerc (21:02)
Yeah. No ash.

Chris (21:04)
I don’t know what that’s like at all, actually. That’s

a boring concept to me. That’s interesting.

Ashley (21:09)
I know, I so. I guess, though, such a weirdo.

The ShortMerc (21:10)
What? Yeah, you must be all alone in that one. All alone.

Chris (21:14)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

The ShortMerc (21:16)
But it’s…

Chris (21:16)
all my unfinished albums that have not been released.

Ashley (21:20)
Yes.

The ShortMerc (21:20)
I don’t even have

to call you out this episode, you just called yourself out. Chris Miller does the musics and needs to release them.

Chris (21:23)
No, yeah.

I did one six years ago. That was pretty good. It took me like a long time to do that one.

The ShortMerc (21:29)
Yeah great, do another one.

I’m just hearing excuses. I think you should explore a more efficient way to make albums so you can keep it rolling.

Ashley (21:35)
Yes.

Chris (21:36)
I think.

You know what’s tough is that like I I don’t know if I need an efficient way to make albums, but I need I need

to realize that so by the time I’m done with like the last song that could be on the album and I’m putting it together I’ve learned so much from like since the first song was created on ⁓ like mastering or production or whatever that there’s so much more I could do to all the other songs to like bring them up a little bit and for some reason the first album was like I’m just I got

sick of something I think it was like it was during COVID I think and I was like you know I’m just gonna do this and most of it was because I was sick of listening to the same songs over and over and over again trying to make them better and I just wanted to say these are completely finished like you are not allowed to touch these anymore because they’re out there already they’re in the world you can think they suck that’s fine you can think they could be better

And then for some reason, this newest one, I’ve been saying like for the past two or three years, ⁓ I can put it together this year. And it’s just that one little like, ⁓ I know more now. Some of the songs are really old and I want there to be continuity, but I really also just want to like put another album out.

The ShortMerc (22:55)
So just put another album

out and figure out how to lace it together later. I mean, that’s that’s what I do with the book series and stuff that I put out like Balance of Sins was supposed to be a trilogy. Well, it started off as me just being pissed off about something and I was just writing to write. And then I realized I’d gotten 20 pages in and went, hey, this would be really cool if somebody was saying this and going off and then it would I still have the first copy. It’s awful, fucking awful. But then like, yeah, it’s.

Chris (22:59)
Hmm.

Ashley (23:21)
I own it. It is mine forever.

The ShortMerc (23:24)
It should be burned and thrown in the bottom of the ocean, shot into space and forgotten about. But that’s one of the things like I started going into it I’m like, all right, well, this sucks. But I kind of want there to be another one. So I wrote another one and then it was better. And it’s actually the second one is my favorite. And then I wrote another one, which then Sin’s Doctor, think, is Ashley’s one of she’s read all of them now, so she can’t tell. But it’s one of her favorites. And then I got to the end of Sin’s Doctor and went, nah.

Ashley (23:26)
You will not find it.

The ShortMerc (23:53)
So I flipped the script. took a little bit of an explorative detour into ⁓ Pecklin X-Journal, which starts with, you know…

in bakery, not with somebody chained to a floor or causing mass mayhem, murder, anything like that. It’s just a guy in a bakery and his grandson comes in, his adult grandson, mind you, this is not for kids. Can’t say that enough. His adult grandson walks in there and they start having a conversation. And I think that’s when I started doing more of that flashback style. Like I started learning that’s a really good style for me. ⁓ And then break away from that family itself. I went into a completely different direction and was like, well, what happens if I

explore a different character and a different family. And now here we are, Book 8 comes out this year and I’m like…

That was a good explorative thing and I actually went back and edited book one, Death of a Creative Soul, again, just to see where the plot holes were and like fix it and build it since I’ve learned so much more since then and how to like take the rules, do the rules, break the rules, be great at it, which is I think where that mastery comes from eventually. Like if you’re just going out to explore and yeah, full circle, come out going out to explore and just ⁓ letting the mastery and the

Chris (24:57)
Hmm

The ShortMerc (25:11)
the goal kind of be there so you know where to go, kind of like the north pointing face on a compass. I think it’s kind of how you get there and bring those experiences with you because we all want to be that cool tea drinking uncle.

Chris (25:27)
That’s interesting. It reminds me of that phrase like this album that has been remastered. It’s like even though it was mastered before, like I’m a new kind of master now. So now it’s going to be remastered. So that’s interesting.

The ShortMerc (25:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so that is, ⁓ I think that’s.

that’s exploration kind of in a nutshell. I mean, from therapy to artistry to shit, even just fucking around, you know, exploring it like the hat. That’s how I got into rocks. And now my room is full of rocks. There’s so many rocks and crystals and things in my house. But they’re not even just things that I picked out of a store or saw online. They’re things I went out in the woods and just like, look, that’s a garnet and picked it up. And and I think that I think it’s a good good way to heal, too, if I’m being

Ashley (25:56)
Thank

The ShortMerc (26:13)
completely honest but I know that’s that’s a later vantage point we’ll chat about that but yeah I think I think that’s exploration in a nutshell kind of

Chris (26:23)
I

kind of struck me as interesting. Like the way you explore takes on the form of like your, you processing your reality, but you typically will funnel or channel or translate your

⁓ exploration around that into a singular universe that kind of all rotates around itself and is all related or something. And I always found that fascinating about authors because they, they just create, they, they imagine or have this entire universe that they’re aware of, that they want to tell the story of. And then, and some authors will stay in that universe and some will just kind of like bounce back and forth.

Ashley (27:07)
soon.

Chris (27:09)
It makes me curious about like musicians and how that relates to me. So that’s interesting.

The ShortMerc (27:13)
I mean,

that’s a fair thought. knows, maybe Ashley did you, I mean it looked like you went into a completely different time warp for a second and then came back and accidentally hit the muffin button, but.

Ashley (27:25)
I

Chris (27:26)
muffin

Ashley (27:26)
got a phone call and it’s being working all the time. It’s fine. don’t have take it. I got a phone call. So, but when I hit to like text, like took me, I don’t know what happened on your end, but it like removed me completely. I know I’m back. So hi.

The ShortMerc (27:39)
you were just

gone. We were like, oh, fuck, Ashley hates us. yeah, and then I mean, at the bottom, it said fuck off, weirdos. So we were a bunch of new age hippies. Yeah, I think I think she had a little bit of that buyer’s remorse, but in reverse, like fuck off remorse. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Chris (27:42)
It was a weirdly yeah, it was like a picture of you giving us the middle finger or something. It was really weird

Ashley (27:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah.

Chris (27:51)
You

but she

came back so she must like us a little.

Ashley (27:57)
I do.

Chris (28:00)
yeah, yeah ⁓

Ashley (28:02)
Yeah.

The ShortMerc (28:05)
No, but I mean, like, I think musicians are really similar and it’s natural to wonder how that relates to you, especially if you think it’s a cool, like, concept that you want to dive into. ⁓ But I’ve always been, like, I’m a percussionist and I love me hit things with rock. ⁓ Make sound. Can’t find stick. But I like…

Chris (28:12)
Yeah.

Go find stick, go find rock.

The ShortMerc (28:25)
Okay, fine, make drum.

Ashley (28:26)
I’m go.

The ShortMerc (28:28)
But I always thought that it was cool because like I know how to keep a beat and jump in. It’s like a good measure of double Dutch. Like you just get in there and you’re like, all right, there’s my pace. Like you come in for it. But I always thought it was cool ⁓ how melodic and harmonious musicians kids like hear a pitch and just start humming it and just kind of like, ⁓ this is really nice. I wonder what it would sound like with this. like, again, that’s the double Dutch angle. That’s where a percussionist would be like, let’s throw some beats behind and see where we end up. Or, you know, you guys might tell us to fuck off because we just want to

head things.

Chris (29:00)
I can’t beat though. I was like, oh, the metronome has to be on. I’m too flowy. I’m just like too much in the melodic flow. Yeah, that’s what it is.

The ShortMerc (29:02)
I got you. got you. I got the beat.

Ashley (29:05)
you

The ShortMerc (29:12)
But I mean

like that’s how really great collaboration start. think that’s that’s cuz like again for me I like that grounded

March, like, you know where we’re going and you like the harmonies and melodies, the flow of things you hear like the sounds, the different sounds of life, you know, and I hear the different rhythms and flows and Ashley hears the music and either goes, this is shit. Or it’s like, this is awesome. Like it’s it’s it’s actually kind of cool how music translates across all three. You know, it’s just like from the melody to the beat to actually enjoying the the piece at the end. ⁓

think that’s splendid, because you never know. mean, actually, correct me if I’m wrong, but you might use this in your practice, like when people are in there talking and they hear a certain song and it brings up a memory and then it leads them down a crazy path or something like that.

Ashley (30:03)
Yeah, no, that’s that’s music is a really powerful tool in therapy. I with clients and supervisees like I’ve had supervisees who we start every supervision with a song that we’re like really feeling that day or something. And it just gives me a sense of the supervisor of like, this is where we are. ⁓ Or, you know, we really have. It’s a bad day and we really need to have a better conversation or something. And same with clients like I have

clients who have told me that they deliberately listen to certain music so that like if they have pent up feelings, they know that it’ll make them cry. And so that crying will finally release the pent up feelings. So music can be like, yeah, super powerful in therapy.

The ShortMerc (30:45)
Yeah.

It’s a great explorative tool, think. And I think it’s cool too, like your clients, said that you have some kind of feel pent up feelings and push with the music. I think it’s kind of cool that they do stuff like that because I feel like a lot of people, again, think that exploration is jumping in feet first, like grind and hustle culture. But it’s like you can think about where you want to go. That’s what I was saying. I don’t know if it translated well, but that’s kind of what I was saying with like, there should be a goal, but it shouldn’t be the whole

Ashley (31:09)
Mm-hmm.

The ShortMerc (31:15)
whole

reason you’re going off exploring like maybe 30 % of it’s the goal the other 70 % is to fuck her out in the woods and you know find something cool like a fairy circle or something I don’t know I don’t know what people find these days I’m too damn old for that but yes rocks but yeah no I think that’s it’s a great it’s great it’s great to be prepared it’s great to see where people are because it sounds like you use a tool as a ⁓

Chris (31:28)
Rocks.

The ShortMerc (31:42)
kind of compass for your conversations with supervisees and clients alike.

Chris (31:48)
It’s interesting the…

Ashley (31:48)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris (31:51)
the difference that it seems between me and you, Ashley, that I’m very comfortable exploring on my own and you’re very comfortable exploring with others, but I should be more exploring with others. And you had mentioned earlier that you want to be more exploring on your own. So that’s interesting that like you can be good. You can be like better at one type of exploration. And I love collaborating, but I think

Ashley (32:02)
Thank you.

Yep.

Chris (32:20)
There’s something, and I’m just going through something recently just about trusting people and being okay with letting people help, basically. So I think there’s part of that that has to do with it. least I know if I have all the control and I’m doing all the things, then I can control the way it goes and I don’t have to have.

some uncertainty, but it’s the uncertainty that when I actually do have it, that I’m like, that’s the fun part of it. Like, it’s fun to have another person in the mix because they’re completely changing the way things go. And I’m not just stuck on like my own groove. She’s flipping us off again.

Ashley (32:43)
Mm-hmm.

The ShortMerc (33:00)
I know, what the fuck Ashley?

Ashley (33:00)
I’m sorry. I’m

still here. I’m sorry. I need lotion. Listen, I need to be doing something else while I’m talking or you’re not going to get

The ShortMerc (33:05)
⁓ Well, you

Chris (33:06)
Yeah.

The ShortMerc (33:08)
don’t need to explain the importance of lotion to me, let me tell you. Yeah, okay, that you might have to, because you’re obsessed. sorry, Ashley was flicking us off to get lotion and chapstick hydrating skin. Geez.

Ashley (33:12)
and traffic.

I am. Sorry. I was not.

Chris (33:22)
But that’s,

that’s the best. That’s what’s cool about what I was just saying. It’s like, now we’re talking about something else, you know, like my, my agenda matters less when I’m working with other people. And I think that’s important because I’m very set in my ways and stuck in my agenda sometimes. And I don’t even realize that I’m doing it unless I’m with someone else and there’s another new idea that’s introduced. So that was kind of perfect.

The ShortMerc (33:28)
Yeah.

Yeah, we didn’t, we’re rocking it, guys. We’re rocking it.

Ashley (33:49)
Ha

The ShortMerc (33:52)
This is definitely coming back to some of these conversations. think that they’re really important to have and they’re not going away either. I mean, people are going to keep exploring. Every generation’s got their own way of exploring every culture, every individual. Like, it’s a great thing. But yeah, I’m excited to see what it is John’s got to say. And maybe if our sound guy gets from behind his board, he can also chime in a little bit and we’ll do sound bites with Spencer and get his take on that. ⁓ But yeah.

So good job. I’m wrapping that one. Goat noise!

Ashley (34:22)
Sounds good.

Chris (34:24)
Nyeh heh!

The ShortMerc (34:25)
there we go